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Post by creamedkeith on Feb 14, 2018 11:48:01 GMT -5
Hey guys, just wanted to vent for a minute. Lately, I've been selling off my PSAs and have been questioning their "value". I've mentioned this before in various posts, but I have a hard time getting on board with the high prices for subjective grades. I was buying 9s and 10s a few years back, and got caught up in the excitement.
Now that I think about it, I can't justify paying top dollar for them and would rather own real "rare" items. Years ago the Nasty Nick glossy GEM was thought of as super rare since it had a POP 1. Now it's a POP 19, even higher than the matte, at 15. Something thought of as rare, now multiplied like a soaking wet Gremlin after midnight. The price dropped from like $5,000 to around $1,000.
With pencil/color roughs and finals, you are truly talking about a rare item. They are real 1/1s (well, unless you consider Bunk and then you are talking about 1/3s or so). These items from the 80s can really only get more rare (like if someone's house getting flooded or something like that). Whereas, with PSAs, they will most likely only increase. There is still plenty of unopened wax, and serious collectors with MINT, raw cards.
To me, it's more like manufactured rare, like the latest craze of numbered cards. So, just because Topps throws a 1/1 on the same card, it's now worth X times more!?
Also, for OS1 cards you can get a common 8 for $10, a 9 for $25, and then quadruple it to $100 for a 10. Also, a 1983 Ryne Sandberg Topps card sells for $10/$25/$300 which is an even crazier increase. After handling many PSAs, I've seen some 10s that should be 9s or 8s, and 9s that should be 10s, etc. Then there's also guys that are cracking cards out of cases to get re-slabbed. This messes up the POP count and also makes you question the real grade if it's changed. THEN, you also have the issue of scratched cases, which drives me nuts.
Vent over. Back to work.
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Post by seymourbarf on Feb 14, 2018 12:59:52 GMT -5
I agree with you that paying a high price for 10s is kind of ridiculous when 9s are much cheaper, and *may actually* be equal to or better than the 10s in cut and condition. I only buy 10s if 9s aren't available and the 10s are priced reasonably (for instance, I paid $60 for a Croakin' Colin 10 because I haven't ever seen another graded Colin (or Toady Terry) offered for sale). But I don't collect PSA cards for their rarity - I collect them just to have cards I like that are officially deemed mint or gem mint. Whether the pop count is one or 100 doesn't matter to me.
So if you're looking to collect rare items, you are absolutely right in your thinking that original art is the way to go (rather than PSAs). But original art is expensive! I could never justify forking out $1500 or more for art. And that's if I even had that much disposable income, which I don't! That's why I have bought 1/1 blank back cards. Even though they are "manufactured rare" as you say, they and OS proofs are the only 1/1 items I'll ever realistically be able to own.
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Post by tommy4ya on Feb 15, 2018 5:25:06 GMT -5
Hey Keith, I told you before I'm not gonna tell you again leave Sandberg out of this!!
I agree with you though, I'm really close to finishing the set, about 12 more to go, but the prices are way too crazy now I don't think I'll finish. Just not worth it. There are some major baseball cards you can get for 500 when people are asking the same for a weird Wendy. Also PSA grade is based on the submitter, I've had flawless cards come in at 9 while stuff that shouldn't have hit a 8 get 10s all day (4sharpcorners I'm looking at you). BGS is way better but since they are stricter a lot less people submit, even though in reality a 9 from BGS can beat plenty of PSA10s I've seen.
But finishing these last few cards I'm not really going to spend 6k+ its insane. I have a few doubles to trade so I might make up some ground but really unless things in the market change significantly I'll just give up on this set, not to mention the people that might want to get started on this, is it really worth 20k? (Just an estimate at 250 per card).
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Post by creamedkeith on Feb 16, 2018 9:28:54 GMT -5
Good point about the grades being based on the submitter too. Speaking of 4Sharp, I've bought a lot of PSAs from them over the years, and so many had scratched cases. ARGH!
So, even with all this PSA bashing, I'm still trying to complete my PSA 9 sets of series 1 and 2...
Also, I stand corrected. 1983 Topps Sandberg GEMs have sold for FOUR HUNDRED. So, instead of a nice, mint 9 for $30, why not pay 13X for a 10!? I mean, they are pretty rare, with a POP count of ONLY 533................
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Post by antiqueman98 on Mar 6, 2018 3:07:13 GMT -5
Hey Keith, I told you before I'm not gonna tell you again leave Sandberg out of this!! I agree with you though, I'm really close to finishing the set, about 12 more to go, but the prices are way too crazy now I don't think I'll finish. Just not worth it. There are some major baseball cards you can get for 500 when people are asking the same for a weird Wendy. Also PSA grade is based on the submitter, I've had flawless cards come in at 9 while stuff that shouldn't have hit a 8 get 10s all day (4sharpcorners I'm looking at you). BGS is way better but since they are stricter a lot less people submit, even though in reality a 9 from BGS can beat plenty of PSA10s I've seen. But finishing these last few cards I'm not really going to spend 6k+ its insane. I have a few doubles to trade so I might make up some ground but really unless things in the market change significantly I'll just give up on this set, not to mention the people that might want to get started on this, is it really worth 20k? (Just an estimate at 250 per card). Being fairly new at this- but have been obsessively collecting this or that (baseball/ coins etc..) for 30 years. THIS is the reason I’m on here to learn from you guys. I appreciate reading these. Not to mention I am buying 10’s from 4sharpcorners and I don’t want to kick myself a few years down the road. I started with series 2 just to makes sure I’m truly serious to get at series 1!! Just my first series 1 number 11 was expensive yikes! After reading this I’m honestly thinking...should I be buying old packs or these PSA’s?? Either way I have fun but am I wasting my money 💰 tell me more about 4 sharpcorners does PSA ‘gift’ 10’s because of the business they do with them??
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Post by creamedkeith on Mar 6, 2018 8:36:37 GMT -5
My biggest problem with 4sharpcorners is that SO MANY slabs have scratches. I have even emailed them about it, but they do not accept returns. Whenever I buy from them now, I zoom in and put my face up to the screen to fully inspect the case! They must have some lighting that doesn't show the scratches, although some times you can actually see them.
I can only speculate about the grades they receive, but they have like 200,000+ transactions on eBay (and that doesn't include their business outside of eBay). So, think about how much business they give to PSA. There must be a little pressure to make their biggest client happy. Think of the ratings agencies during the housing boom and bust.
OS1 pack prices have gotten out of control too. In my opinion, it is way too risky to buy those packs for like $100, with the chance of gum and wax stains. Plus, I've opened OS1 packs over the past few years, and you risk getting OC cards or even a corner ding or two. If you can find packs for under $50, I think that might be worth the risk.
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Post by tommy4ya on Mar 6, 2018 8:57:41 GMT -5
My biggest problem with 4sharpcorners is that SO MANY slabs have scratches. I have even emailed them about it, but they do not accept returns. Whenever I buy from them now, I zoom in and put my face up to the screen to fully inspect the case! They must have some lighting that doesn't show the scratches, although some times you can actually see them. I can only speculate about the grades they receive, but they have like 200,000+ transactions on eBay (and that doesn't include their business outside of eBay). So, think about how much business they give to PSA. There must be a little pressure to make their biggest client happy. Think of the ratings agencies during the housing boom and bust. OS1 pack prices have gotten out of control too. In my opinion, it is way too risky to buy those packs for like $100, with the chance of gum and wax stains. Plus, I've opened OS1 packs over the past few years, and you risk getting OC cards or even a corner ding or two. If you can find packs for under $50, I think that might be worth the risk. Yup. I would never buy a pack to open it now, just too expensive. One of the reasons OS1 gems are so hard to come by is the set was printed by the B team so the miscuts are very pervasive. Seen people drop massive money on boxed to crack only to have the cards miscut to oblivion.
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Post by antiqueman98 on Mar 6, 2018 9:10:44 GMT -5
Good advice. After contemplating the options I think it would be a lot more expensive to search for 1985 gems from packs than just buying the PSA’s... it has to be depressing buying an original series 1 box only to find them all dinged, miss-cut etc.
I’m starting to feel that way about autos and sketches also- I’ve spent hundreds and I still had to buy a sketch in ebay just so I can feel like ‘yay I finally have one’. I really want to feel like I Won one!! Rant over
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Post by tommy4ya on Mar 6, 2018 9:34:10 GMT -5
Being fairly new at this- but have been obsessively collecting this or that (baseball/ coins etc..) for 30 years. THIS is the reason I’m on here to learn from you guys. I appreciate reading these. Not to mention I am buying 10’s from 4sharpcorners and I don’t want to kick myself a few years down the road. I started with series 2 just to makes sure I’m truly serious to get at series 1!! Just my first series 1 number 11 was expensive yikes! After reading this I’m honestly thinking...should I be buying old packs or these PSA’s?? Either way I have fun but am I wasting my money 💰 tell me more about 4 sharpcorners does PSA ‘gift’ 10’s because of the business they do with them?? I don't have any evidence other than my own dealings so take this as the free advice on a message board that it is. 4Scamcornners does thousands of grades per month from PSA so to keep that business they grade on a higher curve than your average joe collector. A 4sharp PSA 10 could easily be a 8 or 9 if submitted by mere common folk. If I get some time I'll post a 4sharp 10 that I got. Just for fun I'll submit it, bet it won't go above an 8. The top of the card is shredded. They don't tell you whats on the back (none of the early PSA OS1 glossys are labeled as glossy, they started that later) and their pics are purposely crap. But they deal with so much volume there they do actually have legitimate 10s, just need some good luck. There is a really great post on here from an awesome member who put together a full glossy and matte OS1 gem set. Very drool worthy and has some good advice, mainly box/packs breaking not really the way to go. He started in 2010 so I imagine its way more expensive now. Outside 4sharp there are several regular sellers on ebay that mostly deal with GPK. The prices are high but they will deal with you, especially if you get multiples. garbagepailkids.proboards.com/thread/17489/unveiling-176-os1-gems?page=1&scrollTo=224200Feel free to PM if you want more info.
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Post by creamedkeith on Mar 22, 2018 16:16:34 GMT -5
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 8:58:56 GMT -5
Easy mistake, not like he's one of the greatest 2Bs of the last 30 years and a HOF member or anything!
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Post by tommy4ya on Mar 23, 2018 9:22:09 GMT -5
Its probably spelled wrong everywhere else and ACA are the only people with a clue, what about that? Unrelated question, does Sandberg have a restraining order out against you?
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 9:50:12 GMT -5
Its probably spelled wrong everywhere else and ACA are the only people with a clue, what about that? Unrelated question, does Sandberg have a restraining order out against you? His real name is actually Rye-bread Sandwich. He changed it when he got to Ellis Island.
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 10:13:30 GMT -5
Its probably spelled wrong everywhere else and ACA are the only people with a clue, what about that? Unrelated question, does Sandberg have a restraining order out against you? His real name is actually Rye-bread Sandwich. He changed it when he got to Ellis Island. This was a high-quality joke.
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 10:15:21 GMT -5
His real name is actually Rye-bread Sandwich. He changed it when he got to Ellis Island. This was a high-quality joke. This is the kind of subscription-quality content I provide to you guys free of charge on a regular basis.
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 10:17:45 GMT -5
This was a high-quality joke. This is the kind of subscription-quality content I provide to you guys free of charge on a regular basis. Good luck finding content like this on your precious Facebook groups. "Ooh, look at me, I belong to a GPK Facebook group, lah-dee-dah!" Ingrates.
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Post by tommy4ya on Mar 23, 2018 10:30:18 GMT -5
This was a high-quality joke. This is the kind of subscription-quality content I provide to you guys free of charge on a regular basis. What the hell do you mean free?? I pay Cory 19.95 per month for this content, how do you get it for free?
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Post by seymourbarf on Mar 23, 2018 11:31:20 GMT -5
This is the kind of subscription-quality content I provide to you guys free of charge on a regular basis. What the hell do you mean free?? I pay Cory 19.95 per month for this content, how do you get it for free???? I am Russian hacker Goose-ifer.
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